Level 1 Charger Plug...

[Robin Scott Marsh]

On Saturday, December 26, 2015 at 2:33:26 PM UTC-8, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Ralph Mowery wrote:

That is what I got when the First Class Phone was not needed any more and
the First and Second Class was changed over to the GROL.

I agree , I think many companies were started up or started handing out some
kind of certification just to make money. Where I worked I had to get
certified every year for something about radiation. Then came the
refregeration and ozone scare, certified to operate a stud gun, operate some
man lifting platforms, the Star program, ISO 6000 or was it 9000 , TPM,
deversity training, PLC certification (only thing that I got any training on
worth anything), don\'t recall what all else. Retired about the time the six
sigma came out with all the stupid belts. I even thought the First Phone
was a joke when I took it in 1972. I had studied some on a 2 nd class book
and at the time it cost one dollar more to take the First, so I signed up
for that and passed everything the first day. Never did see a TV
transmitter and would not know what to do if I had.
The first thing you would have discovered is that TV used a pair of
transmitters, in 1972. That was the year that I tested out of the three
year, depot level school for broadcast engineering. It was the
equivalent of the FCC First Phone, and was convertible without taking
the FCC test, until the year before I left the service. I worked at
three TV stations, in all. One AFRTS Army station, and two commercial
UHF stations without a First Phone.

I too received my NABER certification paperwork and card back around 1986. I recall having to drive up to L.A. from San Diego and taking a long test covering all type of electronic, RF, Television and FCC type questions. It was a 3 or 4 hour brutal test. I think the NABER certification disappeared from usage more than twenty years ago. I looked to see if I could recertify it 20 years ago and it was nowhere to be found. I Had my NARTE CET and GROL licenses and wanted to beef up my resume with the NABER license. No Joy!

 

[Ralph Mowery]

In article <76c3d3e1-09cf-4390-a772-287832a3290an@googlegroups.com>,
robin.marsh.usmc@gmail.com says...

I too received my NABER certification paperwork and card back around 1986. I recall having to drive up to L.A. from San Diego and taking a long test covering all type of electronic, RF, Television and FCC type questions. It was a 3 or 4 hour brutal test. I think the NABER certification disappeared from usage more than twenty
years ago. I looked to see if I could recertify it 20 years ago and it was nowhere to be found. I Had my NARTE CET and GROL licenses and wanted to beef up my resume with the NABER license. No Joy!

I had that NABER but got tired of sending them money as I never did work
in the field that needed that. Have no idea about it now.

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 25 Dec 2015 12:20:49 -0800 (PST),
videogamencomputerguy@gmail.com wrote:

On Friday, April 21, 1995 at 2:00:00 AM UTC-5, Brian Feeny wrote:
Hello,

I was wondering if someone could tell me what the NABER Certification isand
just how recognized it is. I have a CET (ETA), and FCC GROL license
currently. An associate at work (USAF) told me that the FCC license
is no longer recognized by industry and that employers (motorola, att,
nt, etc) now want you to have the NABER Certification. He claimed the
FCC was more of a operating license then maintence.
The way I understand it, FCC is both operating and maintence of certain
equiptment. I thought employers wanted EITHER the naber or fcc, but
had never heard a firm wanting just the naber.

Any information about the NABER Certification would be appreciated.

The NABER was an attempt to replace the FCC First class Radio-ttelephone license in the last century. The FCC loosly says that it\'s up to the station\'s owner to establish the technition\'s technical competance. The NABER is one way to show that. The amatuer FCC Extra class license has a good start towards the NABER. Now days with circuit board swapping as the norm for many technicians, component level troubleshooting can be a valuable asset to be exploited. Exact repplacements is another area that is required to maintain FCC compliance under type acceptance guidelines. Under part 15, 90, 95 & 97 of CFR 47. Reading these can help with test questions. Brodcasting rules would also help those interested in taking on that chalenge. Find a CFR library near you or buy from library of congress\'s help.

Originally, NABER was one of the first frequency coordination
organizations to be recognized by the FCC. As I vaguely recall, they
initially handled mostly land mobile stations, and were structured as
a \"business radio user organization\". If you wanted a business
frequency, you had to join NABER. They may have branched out into
other areas later. See the first paragraph at:
<https://www.google.com/books/edition/Hearings/5fkFAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=National+Association+of+Business+and+Educational+Radio&pg=RA4-PA37&printsec=frontcover>
I don\'t know when they began issuing certifications as I was doing
other things when that began.

Some of their history is still around:
<http://www.worldcat.org/identities/lccn-n85-3375/>
The timeline is wrong as they were fully functional in the 1960\'s and
1970\'s.
<https://www.worldcat.org/search?q=au%3ANational+Association+of+Business+and+Educational+Radio+%28U.S.%29&qt=hot_author>
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=National+Association+of+Business+and+Educational+Radio>

What little contact I had with NABER was not mutually advantageous.
NABER was highly bureaucratic, but an improvement over dealing with
the FCC. Like most certification issuing organizations of the day,
their primary purpose of the exams was likely to have been to sell
their books, study material, classes, etc to assist applicants with
the intentionally confusing questions in the exams.

Over the years, I\'ve had many opportunities to take various
certification exams, but never bothered. There were a few that I
recall wanting, just for the status symbol. Somehow, the lack of
certificates never affected my rather checkered career. I guess ham
radio and GROL licenses might be considered certificates:
<https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=2228353>
<https://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=2482894>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[Peter W.]

Note that this thread started in 1995!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2022 09:31:53 -0700 (PDT), \"Peter W.\"
<peterwieck33@gmail.com> wrote:

Note that this thread started in 1995!

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

I noticed, after I posted my reply. That\'s also that my reply was
mostly a duplicate of what I had replied to the thread in 2015. I had
been doing yard work, became overheated, and nearly passed out. After
I somewhat recovered, I cleverly decided that it would be a good time
to catch up on email and Usenet. The next day, I read what I had
posted and decided that perhaps it was not such a clever idea. My
apologies. However, I suspect it will happen again if I read
something interesting as was the case with this thread.


--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

 

[bruce bowser]

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 3:35:45 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Kuthe has been complaining about all the ads on YouTube and after last
week, I agree.

I listed to a lot of it on the computer and have no problem, rarely see
an advertisement and they are easily skipped if the do come up.

Last week we wanted to watch some directly on TV through my friend\'s
Comcast cable. The music started, but a couple of minuted in, an ad
pops up. You allegedly can push a button to skip ads, but nothing
worked. Back to music for five minutes, then another ad. It got batter
after a time but the first half hour was horrid. I could find no way to
skip them.

At home, I\'ll continue to cast from the laptop and avoid the horrid ad
experience.

if you throw a dance or run music for a bar, restaurant or night-club, then record on a tape cassette. I won\'t throw the dice on interruptions by modern hardware/software from providers\' or servers\' possible commercials.

 

[John Doe]

Google Groups spam...

--
bruce bowser <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

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Jun 2022 15:25:01 -0700 (PDT)
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On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 3:35:45 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote in rec.food.cooking:
Kuthe has been complaining about all the ads on YouTube and after last
week, I agree.

I listed to a lot of it on the computer and have no problem, rarely see
an advertisement and they are easily skipped if the do come up.

Last week we wanted to watch some directly on TV through my friend\'s
Comcast cable. The music started, but a couple of minuted in, an ad
pops up. You allegedly can push a button to skip ads, but nothing
worked. Back to music for five minutes, then another ad. It got batter
after a time but the first half hour was horrid. I could find no way to
skip them.

At home, I\'ll continue to cast from the laptop and avoid the horrid ad
experience.

if you throw a dance or run music for a bar, restaurant or night-club, then record on a tape cassette. I won\'t throw the dice on interruptions by modern hardware/software from providers\' or servers\' possible commercials.

 

[Edward Hernandez]

John Doe stated the following in message-id <svsh05$lbh$5@dont-email.me>
(http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=164904625100) posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022
08:01:09 -0000 (UTC):

Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
except insults to this group.

Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Doe\'s post ratio to
USENET (**) has been 66.5% of its posts contributing \"nothing except
insults\" to USENET.

** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Doe has posted at
least 2498 articles to USENET. Of which 176 have been pure insults and
1486 have been John Doe \"troll format\" postings.

The John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Doe troll stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless John Doe troll has itself posted yet another
incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Thu, 30 Jun 2022 02:51:38 GMT in
message-id <_c8vK.233106$VPw7.207392@usenetxs.com>.

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that John Doe does not even follow
the rules it uses to troll other posters.

MwsBej/KW8AE

 

[John Doe]

Eddie, the Astraweb nym-shifting forger is trolling off-topic and other posts
with its copy of my ID, then replies (or not) to its own post.

See also...
Edward H. <dtgamer99 gmail.com>
Edward Hernandez <dtgamer99 gmail.com>
Peter Weiner <dtgamer99 gmail.com>
John Doe <always.look message.header> (Astraweb, Aioe.org)
Bertrand Sindri <bertrand.sindri yahoo.com> (unlikely but possible)

--
John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote:

Path: eternal-september.org!reader01.eternal-september.org!news.uzoreto.com!news-out.netnews.com!news.alt.net!fdc2.netnews.com!peer03.ams1!peer.ams1.xlned.com!news.xlned.com!peer03.ams4!peer.am4.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!fx12.ams4.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: John Doe <always.look@message.header
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.repair,free.spam
Subject: Re: YouTube ads
Followup-To: alt.test.group
References: <2e8697b2-d55f-4f4b-a971-4e8a2fe3b451n@googlegroups.com
Injection-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 22:51:38 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host=\"aefae07b417003b570527823e77a9930\"; logging-data=\"29200\"; mail-complaints-to=\"abuse@eternal-september.org\"; posting-account=\"U2FsdGVkX18QBXYPJWay5G0R7zD10mjY5gUD5xOvt6I=\"
User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.05
Lines: 43
Message-ID: <_c8vK.233106$VPw7.207392@usenetxs.com
X-Complaints-To: https://www.astraweb.com/aup
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 02:51:38 UTC
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 02:51:38 GMT
X-Received-Bytes: 2978
Xref: reader01.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.repair:99670 free.spam:20132

Google Groups spam...

--
bruce bowser <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

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Wed, 29 Jun 2022 15:25:02 -0700 (PDT)
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Jun 2022 15:25:01 -0700 (PDT)
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Message-ID: <2e8697b2-d55f-4f4b-a971-4e8a2fe3b451n@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: YouTube ads
From: bruce bowser <bruce2bowser@gmail.com
Injection-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 22:25:02 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=\"UTF-8\"
X-Received-Bytes: 2136

On Wednesday, June 29, 2022 at 3:35:45 PM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote in rec.food.cooking:
Kuthe has been complaining about all the ads on YouTube and after last
week, I agree.

I listed to a lot of it on the computer and have no problem, rarely see
an advertisement and they are easily skipped if the do come up.

Last week we wanted to watch some directly on TV through my friend\'s
Comcast cable. The music started, but a couple of minuted in, an ad
pops up. You allegedly can push a button to skip ads, but nothing
worked. Back to music for five minutes, then another ad. It got batter
after a time but the first half hour was horrid. I could find no way to
skip them.

At home, I\'ll continue to cast from the laptop and avoid the horrid ad
experience.

if you throw a dance or run music for a bar, restaurant or night-club, then record on a tape cassette. I won\'t throw the dice on interruptions by modern hardware/software from providers\' or servers\' possible commercials.

 

[Edward Hernandez]

In message-id <t6nt3e$7bp$3@dont-email.me>
(http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165357273000) posted Thu, 26 May 2022
12:50:54 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe stated:

Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely
NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...

Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe\'s post ratio
to USENET (**) has been 66.6% of its posts contributing \"nothing except
insults\" to USENET.

** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe has posted at
least 2506 articles to USENET. Of which 176 have been pure insults and
1493 have been Troll Doe \"troll format\" postings.

The John Dope troll stated the following in message-id
<sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

> The troll doesn\'t even know how to format a USENET post...

And the John Dope troll stated the following in message-id
<sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
CLUELESS...

And yet, the clueless John Dope troll has itself posted yet another
incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Thu, 30 Jun 2022 05:22:56 -0000
(UTC) in message-id <t9jbvg$1n7td$2@dont-email.me>.

This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
readers who happen by to point out that John Doe does not even follow
the rules it uses to troll other posters.

RJiKyd0dMg0M

 

[Peter W.]

Boo!

Tweedledum and Tweedledumber!

 

[Trevor Guilday]

I just found this company that talks about free solar panels for Connecticut homeowners.

https://ecogenamerica.com/free-solar-panels-connecticut/

Do you know if any other states provide free solar?

On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 10:33:00 AM UTC-5, Fox\'s Mercantile wrote:

On 1/2/20 9:24 AM, pf...@aol.com wrote:
a) You have a \'free\' source of original funding.
So, just for laughs, I followed one of those links for \"free Solar\"
Went though the calculations and such.
Then found out I needed to pay $3500 up front.
Perhaps I missed the part about free.


--
\"I am a river to my people.\"
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

 

[KenW]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 08:19:29 -0700 (PDT), Trevor Guilday
<trevor.guilday@gmail.com> wrote:

I just found this company that talks about free solar panels for Connecticut homeowners.

https://ecogenamerica.com/free-solar-panels-connecticut/

Do you know if any other states provide free solar?

On Thursday, January 2, 2020 at 10:33:00 AM UTC-5, Fox\'s Mercantile wrote:
On 1/2/20 9:24 AM, pf...@aol.com wrote:
a) You have a \'free\' source of original funding.
So, just for laughs, I followed one of those links for \"free Solar\"
Went though the calculations and such.
Then found out I needed to pay $3500 up front.
Perhaps I missed the part about free.


--
\"I am a river to my people.\"
Jeff-1.0
WA6FWi
http:foxsmercantile.com

NOTHING IS REALLY FREE ! Connecticut has VERY high taxes and is run
by Demon-crats.


KenW

 

[Peter W.]

Despite the politically idiotic reply from Ken, residential scale solar is generally a bad idea:

a) It is NOT free. Just for giggles, I responded to such an ad for Pennsylvania. That \"Free\" installation would have cost me $35,000 at 2.5% interest over 20 years. The shill explained very carefully to me that \"Free\" meant \"No Money Down\".
b) Most of these ads claim that it increases the value of the house it is on, dollar-for-dollar. So, I asked my insurance agent about that. His statement: It does increase your value over the first 8 - 10 years, by about half the installed value. But it will increase your premium by about 20% to as much as 35%.
c) It is a depreciating asset, with, essentially NO value after roughly 20 years. I am unclear on the tax implications of that (there may be some).
d) After that roughly 20 years, it becomes an increasing liability - as it reaches the end-of-service life, removal and disposal is a cost.
e) Single grid-tie inverters (one inverter for the entire array) have a general service-life in a residential application of about 10-12 years. At which point, they must be replaced. Micro-inverters (one on each panel) about 1/2 to 1/3 of that.
f) Only the tax subsidy makes it practical and brings the \'payback\' into the under-12-year range. And that subsidy comes at the expense of other taxpayers.
g) At no point in the shill was any sort of maintenance mentioned. Keep in mind that a solar panel consists of many cells. These cells are connected in a series-parallel arrangement such that if any one cell in a group is compromised - snow, leaves, dirt, bird-poop (yes, bird poop), that entire group is off-line. Here in Pennsylvania, maintenance would entail leaf removal quite often, in our neighborhood anyway.
h) Generation figures are generally based on ideal conditions - that is full sunlight, at the equator, with the panels at a clean right-angle to the sun. North of the Tropic of Cancer, summer levels gradually increase as one goes north - with winter levels decreasing. And solar angles change as well..
i) Of course, the sun does not shine at night. For an additional $15,000, I could have had a battery array (Tesla) to store power as-needed. With, roughly, a 10-year system life.
j) These are just the obvious issues.

So, if you are ever approached by a solar sales person - and are into a bit of sadism - state that you are VERY interested, but you would like the individual to present the \"Full LIFETIME Cost\" of the installation, to include:
1. The source and cost of the panels, including the cost of transportation FOB the jobsite.
2. The cost of cleaning up the mining wastes and disposal of that material.
3. The cost of the racking and mounting system as above.
4. The cost of a new roof (if the existing roof is more than 10 years old, or unsuitable for solar panels).
5. The cost of the inverter(s) as above. And the guaranteed minimum service-life for the inverters.
6. The cost of installation and tying into the grid.
7. The expected service life of the system.
8. The (presumably) guaranteed minimum generation over that time.
10. The cost of removal and proper disposition, to include an allowance for roof repairs (and there will be those costs).

All of the above in 2022 dollars, of course.

Now do a \"Time-Value-Of-Money calculation on that total over 20 years, use 4% for inflation (interest rate). Using that $35,000 estimated cost, were I to put that in a bank at 4%, it would be worth $76,689.31 in 20 years. If I made $200/month deposits to a savings account at 2.5%, it would be worth $62,839.86.

Questions to ask yourself:

* Is the cost of the system spread over 20 years anticipated to be more, or less, than my electric-only energy bill? You are replacing one cost with another - so it is best to know what that cost is, in reality.
* There is a cost to be connected to the grid in any case. How much is that cost?
* Which would you rather have in 20 years? A lump of cash, or a lump of nearly-expired solar panels?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[KenW]

My Daughter installed solar here in Colorado. Never asked what it
cost, but cost was spread over years. It did save plenty on electric
though. She moved to Florida.!


KenW

 

[Peter W.]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 2:39:48 PM UTC-4, KenW wrote:

My Daughter installed solar here in Colorado. Never asked what it
cost, but cost was spread over years. It did save plenty on electric
though. She moved to Florida.!


KenW

And the sky remains, generally, up.

There are several states I would never live in, in no particular order:

Oregon People
California Climate & People
Florida People & Climate
Arizona Climate
New Mexico Climate
Mississippi/Alabama/South Carolina/Tennessee People

There are several I have lived in, and would again.

New York
Texas (Austin area)
Rhode Island
Michigan
Illinois

And there are several I have visited, and would live in - some parts, anyway:

Any New England state.
Wisconsin
Minnesota
Colorado

To the he rest, I am indifferent. I have visited all but two (North Dakota and Hawaii).

But, of all of them, Pennsylvania does have, to my way of thinking, generally good people, generally a good climate, exceedingly good healthcare, good tax structure - for me, anyway, and an excellent educational infrastructure from pre-school through higher education. Which is, also in my mind, the single most critical indicator of generally good and thoughtful government.. An uneducated population is useless in this world at every level. When a simple device such as a ditch-witch has GPS and self-guiding capabilities, and when Broccoli pickers have sensor-equipped drones pointing to the ripest plants.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[KenW]

But, of all of them, Pennsylvania does have, to my way of thinking, generally good people, generally a good climate, exceedingly good healthcare, good tax structure - for me, anyway, and an excellent educational infrastructure from pre-school through higher education. Which is, also in my mind, the single most critical indicator of generally good and thoughtful government. An uneducated population is useless in this world at every level. When a simple device such as a ditch-witch has GPS and self-guiding capabilities, and when Broccoli pickers have sensor-equipped drones pointing to the ripest plants.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

I am from New Jersey and used to visit my Daughter here in CO. Came
out one time, it was 104f with very low humidity. That would have been
a killer in NJ. That was the main reason I retired here.


KenW

 

[whit3rd]

On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 10:26:51 AM UTC-7, Peter W. wrote:

Despite the politically idiotic reply from Ken, residential scale solar is generally a bad idea:

a) It is NOT free. ... \"Free\" meant \"No Money Down\".
b) Most of these ads claim that it increases the value of the house it is on...
c) It is a depreciating asset, with, essentially NO value after roughly 20 years. I am unclear on the tax implications of that (there may be some).
d) After that roughly 20 years, it becomes an increasing liability - as it reaches the end-of-service life, removal and disposal is a cost.
e) Single grid-tie inverters (one inverter for the entire array) have a general service-life in a residential application of about 10-12 years. At which point, they must be replaced. Micro-inverters (one on each panel) about 1/2 to 1/3 of that.
f) Only the tax subsidy makes it practical and brings the \'payback\' into the under-12-year range. And that subsidy comes at the expense of other taxpayers.
g) At no point in the shill was any sort of maintenance mentioned.
h) Generation figures are generally based on ideal conditions - that is full sunlight, at the equator, with the panels at a clean right-angle to the sun. North of the Tropic of Cancer, summer levels gradually increase as one goes north - with winter levels decreasing. And solar angles change as well.

The other points are sound, but the insolation is well-tabulated for most geographic regions, and
that is NOT an uncertainty, unless climate change is an important modulation.

> * Is the cost of the system spread over 20 years anticipated to be more, or less, than my electric-only energy bill? You are replacing one cost with another - so it is best to know what that cost is, in reality.

Here, there is a problem: if you want to know the electric-only energy bill\'s expected cost in
twenty years, the fact that burying CO2 waste must be considered means that the effective cost of coal
might have to be quintupled...

 

[Peter W.]

Here, there is a problem: if you want to know the electric-only energy bill\'s expected cost in
twenty years, the fact that burying CO2 waste must be considered means that the effective cost of coal
might have to be quintupled...

All that you write is true - as far as it goes. But, there are other options than coal. Writing just for ourselves and our two houses:
a) We purchase our power from a consortium that uses, exclusively, wind and (planned) cycled hydro power. Cycled hydro power - pump the water up the hill at night when power is cheap, run it down during the day when it is not. Our \'generation\' portion (that power) is $0.0644 per KWH, locked for three years from 1/1/2022. It is mostly from the Rocky Ridge Wind Farm in central PA, and two other nearby. The cycled hydro is in the permitting stage - will it be built? Not sure, not relevant. What is relevant: No coal involved.
b) Agreed on the cost of coal - and \"quintupled\" is probably conservative if one considered actual, legitimate restoration of the land after extraction.
c) My cynicism towards solar is based on being involved with the installation of a total of 20 MW of solar power across four farms in Canada and Vermont - these were utility-sized installation using SOTA technology and materials for the times (2014/15/16). The Canadian installations broke even at CDN $0.78/KWH based on a 20 year life. The Vermont installation broke even at US$0.57 KWH - both guaranteed by the local Utility contracted to purchase the power.

Now, using your numbers at 5X - and, I think legitimately, lets extend that to the total cost of coal-generation today - which, in this region is about $0.055/KWH. That would come to $0.275. It would take a 10-fold increase to reach the (actual) cost of solar power at the utility level.

As you are, if I remember correctly, in the Pacific Northwest - your region is particularly unhappy for reliable solar.
As we are in the Mid-Atlantic region, our solar angles are reasonable - but in a heavily treed township, and in a forested area for our summer house, leaf clutter is a serious issue. On the other hand - Pennsylvania has some of the best wind conditions in the greater region, and seems to be exploiting them. Other issues, as many throw \'birds\' at wind-power:
1. How many tons of mercury do coal plants make? And the effect on all life, not just birds is?
2. Larger, slower turbines confuse birds far less than smaller, faster ones - such that the Hawk Mountain Raptor Conservancy was (and is) involved in designing wind installations in the region.

And so forth.

Were it up to me, nuclear power - using, again, the latest technology, and sized well (as in US Navy-sized) would be the way to go. Oh, nuclear waste, is it? Let me see: There are something like 1,500 underground test sites in Nevada - each one of which will be fatally radioactive for the distant future. From Wiki: The radius r (in feet) of the cavity is proportional to the cube root of the yield y (in kilotons), r = 55 * {\\displaystyle {\\sqrt[{3}]{y}}}{\\sqrt[ {3}]{y}}; an 8 kiloton explosion will create a cavity with radius of 110 feet (34 m).
There is enough capacity there for all the waste generated here in the US since day-1 and for hundreds of years to come. The issue is, of course, getting it there.

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

 

[legg]

On Wed, 6 Jul 2022 10:26:48 -0700 (PDT), \"Peter W.\"
<peterwieck33@gmail.com> wrote:

Despite the politically idiotic reply from Ken, residential scale solar is generally a bad idea:

a) It is NOT free. Just for giggles, I responded to such an ad for Pennsylvania. That \"Free\" installation would have cost me $35,000 at 2.5% interest over 20 years. The shill explained very carefully to me that \"Free\" meant \"No Money Down\".
b) Most of these ads claim that it increases the value of the house it is on, dollar-for-dollar. So, I asked my insurance agent about that. His statement: It does increase your value over the first 8 - 10 years, by about half the installed value. But it will increase your premium by about 20% to as much as 35%.
c) It is a depreciating asset, with, essentially NO value after roughly 20 years. I am unclear on the tax implications of that (there may be some).
d) After that roughly 20 years, it becomes an increasing liability - as it reaches the end-of-service life, removal and disposal is a cost.
e) Single grid-tie inverters (one inverter for the entire array) have a general service-life in a residential application of about 10-12 years. At which point, they must be replaced. Micro-inverters (one on each panel) about 1/2 to 1/3 of that.
f) Only the tax subsidy makes it practical and brings the \'payback\' into the under-12-year range. And that subsidy comes at the expense of other taxpayers.
g) At no point in the shill was any sort of maintenance mentioned. Keep in mind that a solar panel consists of many cells. These cells are connected in a series-parallel arrangement such that if any one cell in a group is compromised - snow, leaves, dirt, bird-poop (yes, bird poop), that entire group is off-line. Here in Pennsylvania, maintenance would entail leaf removal quite often, in our neighborhood anyway.
h) Generation figures are generally based on ideal conditions - that is full sunlight, at the equator, with the panels at a clean right-angle to the sun. North of the Tropic of Cancer, summer levels gradually increase as one goes north - with winter levels decreasing. And solar angles change as well.
i) Of course, the sun does not shine at night. For an additional $15,000, I could have had a battery array (Tesla) to store power as-needed. With, roughly, a 10-year system life.
j) These are just the obvious issues.

So, if you are ever approached by a solar sales person - and are into a bit of sadism - state that you are VERY interested, but you would like the individual to present the \"Full LIFETIME Cost\" of the installation, to include:
1. The source and cost of the panels, including the cost of transportation FOB the jobsite.
2. The cost of cleaning up the mining wastes and disposal of that material.
3. The cost of the racking and mounting system as above.
4. The cost of a new roof (if the existing roof is more than 10 years old, or unsuitable for solar panels).
5. The cost of the inverter(s) as above. And the guaranteed minimum service-life for the inverters.
6. The cost of installation and tying into the grid.
7. The expected service life of the system.
8. The (presumably) guaranteed minimum generation over that time.
10. The cost of removal and proper disposition, to include an allowance for roof repairs (and there will be those costs).

All of the above in 2022 dollars, of course.

Now do a \"Time-Value-Of-Money calculation on that total over 20 years, use 4% for inflation (interest rate). Using that $35,000 estimated cost, were I to put that in a bank at 4%, it would be worth $76,689.31 in 20 years. If I made $200/month deposits to a savings account at 2.5%, it would be worth $62,839.86.

Questions to ask yourself:

* Is the cost of the system spread over 20 years anticipated to be more, or less, than my electric-only energy bill? You are replacing one cost with another - so it is best to know what that cost is, in reality.
* There is a cost to be connected to the grid in any case. How much is that cost?
* Which would you rather have in 20 years? A lump of cash, or a lump of nearly-expired solar panels?

Peter Wieck
Melrose Park, PA

Hell, buddy, we just install the damn things . . . . .

;-)

RL